Heroes and Cowards
Alicia Colon at the New York Sun cites the death of USMC Cpl. Thomas Saba, another of the seven killed when Capt. Jennifer Harris’ Ch-46 was shot down. Colon launches into a discussion of the choices people make, failures, compounded failures and efforts at redemption, in “Heroes and Cowards:”
Corporal Thomas Saba was buried in the Moravian Cemetery on Staten Island last Friday. One of seven Marines killed when their helicopter was shot down in Iraq on February 7, Saba, 30, enlisted in the spring of 2002 in response to the attacks of September 11, 2001. He extended his five-year tour by five months so that he could go with his squadron to Iraq.
It is absolutely amazing how America can continue to produce heroes such as Saba while electing cowardly politicians who mock their sacrifices.
Boston Herald at Harris’ funeral yesterday:
“She would fly so others could live.”
Teflon Don, whose platoon lost three in the process of recovering the bodies and securing the wrecksite, with a roundup here.
Topics: Iraq, courage, military, pols
Posted by Jules Crittenden at 11:54 am on Tuesday, February 20, 2007
51 Responses to “Heroes and Cowards”
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February 20th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
It is absolutely amazing how America can continue to produce heroes such as Saba while electing cowardly politicians who mock their sacrifices.
That piece ought to be clipped out and mailed to every sniveling weasel in Congress, starting with Benedict Murtha.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
More Cowards Than Heros
Came across a wonderful piece (referenced at NRO) in the New York Sun by Alicia Colon. I briefly heard Rush Limbaugh mentioning some military deaths during peacetime, and this must be what he was reading from.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Murtha volunteered to go to Vietnam, Reb.
Nice to know your side has a political litmus test for heroism.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
You can see a chart of military deaths from 1980-2004 here. You’ll see an overall decline from 1980 onwards due to the fact that we were fielding new systems for part of that time (always dangerous) and the implementation of risk assessments for all military tasks (i.e. what are the risks we face, what can we do about them, what is the residual risk).
The service is a dangerous business, but pointing out this kind of context seems callous. Still, I think it’s important to make the case-many lack a proper frame of reference when discussing casualties and are easily manipulated by demagogues (I’m talking to you Jack Murtha, you treasonous old fool). We had five troops killed by enemy action in our squadron during OIF-3, and two more who died of natural causes/accidents. But you could have a track turn over into a river or an artillery tube misfire just as easily during AT and kill almost as many. It is impossible to eliminate a certain degree of danger from the job.
February 20th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
Nibbles — 2007.02.20
Just read ‘em. Maybe I’ll find time to do more with ‘em later. Here, Obedient to Their Laws, We Lie*Jules CrittendenGraves of Athenian war dead from the defeat of the Persians at Marathon, through the Peloponnesian War between Sparta and
February 20th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Bill’s Nibbles — 2007.02.20
Some Bill’s Bites posts, some things I excerpted and linked but I’m sending you to the original post. I may rearrange the order of the items within this post as I add new things that I think belong above the
February 20th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Yes, Murtha was a brave man at one time, before the senility set in, but even back in his Corps days he had a major case of Semper I.
February 20th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
So heroism has an expiration date for wingnuts, too?
Judging by the poor condition at Walter Reed, Republican heroism lasts until to photo op is over.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Murtha volunteered to go to Vietnam, Reb.
So did Jane Fonda. Just saying…
February 20th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Oh for Christ’s sake Alphie-Walter Reed was built almost 100 years ago and was replacement on the last BRAC. The worst of the Army wounded generally go to BAMC in any event. Quit trying to score cheap points-you don’t know the first thing about heroism.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Should read “was scheduled for replacement on the last BRAC.”
February 20th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
“So heroism has an expiration date for wingnuts, too?”
Of course it does; the moment one stops behaving heroically and betrays one’s country, one stops being thought of as a hero. Y’know, like Benedict Arnold — or his modern counterpart, the duplicitous swine Murtha. And re Walter Reed — odd how very little liberal blockheads cared about problems with the VA before they figured they could maybe use them to score cheap political points against Bush, or use them as a fig leaf to cover their backstabbing hostility toward American soldiers. And those problems sure don’t inspire much confidence in the Left’s cherished government health care pig-in-a-poke, now do they?
February 20th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
I believe Republican-certified non-hero John Murtha has been visiting our wounded vets and complaining about their shoddy treatment since the fiasco began, Mike.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
I read the article that has caused all this fooferall at the Washington Post and I am unimpressed. The main focus was on the housing conditions of those who are at the recovery stage, not those who are in need of constant care. They need outpatient follow-up appointments and haven’t been cleared to return to duty, but the chief complaint seems to be that the administrators (not the medical folks) aren’t treating them well.
That’s a complaint in any organization-no one likes the bureaucracy. But given that more bureaucracy is the Dhimmicrats answer to any problem, they don’t have much room to point fingers.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
In other words, it’s not a problem if our brain damaged vets have to battle rats, cockroaches, mold and an incompetent staff while trying to get well, Cav?
Looks like another “Mission Accomplished” moment for the Republicans, then.
Stay the Course!
February 20th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Oh piss off alphie. The article chose to highlight problems in certain parts of the outpatient care available at WRAMC. No institution I know of is perfect and problems can be found anywhere if you look hard enough. Again, nobody ever has anything good to say about bureaucracy and that was what made up most of the complaints in the article. I don’t doubt that the complaints are true, but I’ll bet you could find similar bitches and gripes anywhere you look. Making the perfect the enemy of the good is an old lefty debating technique, but it doesn’t impress me one iota.
February 20th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
That would be true if Bush’s Tejas cronies weren’t receiving enough money every single day to treat our wounded vets like human beings for life.
If the Republicans can’t funnel government money through a front company to skim their take…they’re not interested.
How about we cut back a little on the money Hallibuton’s getting to supply our troops in Iraq with $100 a slice pizza and use the money to hire Orkin to to delouse the quarters our wounded vets are staying in?
February 20th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Alphie has gotten to the point where he no longer reads the posts. He just jumps in and reacts to what he thinks is the general trajectory of the comments, always choosing the opposite position and offering it with a sneering disregard for what anyone is really saying.
Still, one day Alphie might find himself a singing cricket and a generous fairy, and if he prays really hard, maybe he’ll wake up one morning as a real commenter—instead of the wooden puppet he is now.
In the meantime, though, try not to get tangled up in his strings.
http://proteinwisdom.com/index.php?/weblog/entry/22438/#240386
PW
February 20th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Reading is a skill. But it’s not in alphie’s toolset.
http://proteinwisdom.com/index.php?/weblog/entry/22434/#240202
February 20th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
That’s it, eh alphie? That is all you have?! That is weak even by your normally evidence free standards.
http://proteinwisdom.com/index.php?/weblog/entry/22434/#240280
February 20th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
alphie wrote: I’m not saying that at all, Maj. John.
Pardon me for jumping in but, what they heck are you saying, alphie? I mean what is your underlying point?
http://proteinwisdom.com/index.php?/weblog/entry/22434/#240306
February 20th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
That’s enough torture for today.
Thank you for your kind indulgence.
February 20th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
Alphie-let me ’splain something to you. 35 years ago-during Vietnam these troops would have been given a medical discharge and whatever pension the VA decided they deserved and sent home to try and get their health care through the VA.
Instead now, they are kept on active duty with full pay and benefits and cared for by the Army’s health care system. I call that progress. The administration could have sent these guys home and off the Washington Post’s radar screen, but they decided to do the right thing instead.
I really don’t feel like dealing with your Halliburton delusions. The only KBR guys on our FOB repaired the AC (how we loved that guy), carried off the trash and cleaned the shitters. I liked ‘em.
February 20th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
While I appreciate the props, I don’t think it will deflect attention away from the fact that the Republicans have been treating their “heroes” like toilet paper once they’ve been milked for thier propaganda value.
Murtha’s biggest knock on Dick “5 deferments” Cheney’s war is that our wounded vets aren’t being cared for properly.
February 20th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
Alf, you have been painting the troops as part of Bush’s Global Death Machine since Crittenden began blogging. You can’t pretend to care about them now, and believe anyone is going to take you seriously.
Um. Well. Maybe you can.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Murtha’s biggest knock on Dick “5 deferments” Cheney’s war is that our wounded vets aren’t being cared for properly.
Oh please, Jihad Jack Murtha is just looking around for any convenient club to whack the administration with. If his biggest complaint was “care for the troops” he wouldn’t be trying to cut off funding-he would be making more funding for health care and the VA his biggest priority. Words can’t express how much contempt I feel for the defeatist old fool.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
BTW-does anyone think alphie cares about the care of wounded Iraq and Afghanistan vets beyond “propaganda value”?
February 20th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Judging by the conditions our wounded vets have been kept in, Reb, I’d say the burden is on the Bush administration to prove they actually care about the troops.
Or, they could just handle it like the body armor flap and find some wounded vet who’ll claim he really likes the mold and rats he’s sharing his room with.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
And so, once again, alphie simply ignores the inconvenient fact that wounded soldiers are being treated better than in previous conflicts in-yet another-vain attempt to score points. Just keep pounding on the less-than-perfect wherever you can find it (or gin it up), winning a war, any war, is a messy business. I’ve got plenty of bitches against the way the war has been run too, but in the end I recognize that winning is the most important thing and any fault I point out is supportive of that end, unlike our pet troll.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
BTW-does anyone think alphie cares about the care of wounded Iraq and Afghanistan vets beyond “propaganda value”?
Not a bit, CavMedic. alphie wouldn’t know a hero if s/he knocked him on the head with a titanium cluebat. And if alphie did run into an Iraq veteran, I’d guess he’s either rant about BusHaliburton McHitler to no end, or just spit on ‘em.
Rebecca, your comment:
That piece ought to be clipped out and mailed to every sniveling weasel in Congress, starting with Benedict Murtha.
is spot on. I wrote my Congresscritters (two of ‘em are Dhimmicrats, alas) about Murtha’s behavior (which is now borderline treason). I’ll bookmark that article and send it, with that paragraph as the lead in my letter.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
CavMedic, all alphie wants is an emotional response and attention. He’d be happiest if we went to his blog, which I won’t do.
But alphie is in no way interested about honest discussion, if he is even capable of stringing together 3 coherent paragraphs; I’ve never seen him go more than 2 (short) paragraphs myself.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
JeffS-(psst it’s me 91B30 from Tim’s place) I hear you about alphie, but I loathe to let a lefty get off his talking points unchallenged. Other people read these blogs beside us and they might be swayed by what we say. I’m an academic in civilian life and I’m constantly amazed at how often lefties take as a given things that aren’t true. Pointing out where they are wrong can be useful, though it seems that alphie is beyond hope.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
I’d say were plumbing the depths of wingnut denial here.
John Murtha, a guy who’s stuck up for our wounded troops since the start, just has to be the bad guy.
With that conclusion already known, all you guys need are a few phony facts to get there.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
Sure-Murtha cries great big crocodile tears in front of Congress and then wants to give up and run away from the fight. Frankly “sticking up for the troops” might include supporting them through to victory, but that’s just too tough for the Dhimmicrats. Alphie, I’m an OIF vet and I’m not the only one posting here. I despise Murtha for being a defeatist (which is, no doubt, why you love him). The fact that he regularly visits the wounded troops doesn’t change that.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
alphie:
If you find yourself a lone, sane person arguing with a bunch of lunatics, it is a fact that you are on the wrong side of the asylum doors. So whichever side you are on, you should consider moving to the other.
February 20th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
Yo, 91B30! Cool, changed your handles! I shoulda known…..it’s just that I tend to talk like alphie is a witless child, as though he can’t understand what I am saying, even though he is in the room with me. Can’t imagine why, but thanks for the reminder that he is legally competent….that’s quite rude of me.
Actually, alphie you miss an important point here: President Bush visits the troops as well. By your standards, he supports the troops as much as Murtha does. At least, for your standards du jour.
By my standards, however, Murtha is certainly a defeatist, likely a borderline traitor , and probably a coward.
Further, I’m of the opinion that Murtha is throwing he weight around because he wasn’t voted in as the House majority leader last November, which is the last known rational act of the Democratic segment of the House of Representatives in the current session of Congress.
So his “slow bleed” strategy is just his little way of reminding people not to f**k with Congressman Jack “Benedict” Arnold.
February 20th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Whoops! Got carried away there ….. I meant “Congressman Jack “Benedict” Murtha”.
February 20th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Last time Bush visited Walter Reed he said:
“Every time I come to Walter Reed, it confirms that which I know, which is we’re providing the very best: the best care, the best compassion.”
And the best rats and mold, apparently.
February 20th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
have to battle rats, cockroaches, mold and an incompetent staff while trying to get well,
Stipulating that those claims are all true, what would that say about government run socialized medicine which the left has been trying to push on us?
February 20th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Honestly-the article makes a big deal out of the “mold and mess” in one troop’s room, but then at the end he admits: But Duncan would rather suffer with the mold than move to another room and share his convalescence in tight quarters with a wounded stranger. “I have mold on the walls, a hole in the shower ceiling, but . . . I don’t want someone waking me up coming in.”
Here’s the thing-GIs bitch. Now, I realize that the Dhimmicrats aren’t so much a political party as they are an organized peeve, but not every complaint is a call to action. On the first page they quote an officer for a disabled vet organization who says the troops“”get awesome medical care and their lives are being saved,”.
Sounds to me like the hospital has its priorities right.
February 20th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
Of course, Murtha saw all these problems during those weekly visits to Walter Reed long ago, but never made a comment until the story hit the news, eh, alphie?
I mean, since Murtha cares so much more about the troops than Bush, surely he was looking into the matter already, right? And being the chairmain of the House Appropriations Defense subcommittee (see http://appropriations.house.gov/Subcommittees/sub_def.shtml), he offered funding to fix these problems. Yes?
Funny, right now, there are no press releases or events listed at the subcommitte site, or his own web site (http://www.house.gov/murtha/newsroom.shtml) . You’d think Murtha would have this ready to go, showing how much more he cares than Bush.
I mean, you can cite some legislation from Murtha, right? See, the web site of the Office of the Clerk lists only 12 legislative actions involving Murtha….none of which involve Walter Reed or the VA.
[crickets]
About what I thought. Murtha = alphie = loser.
February 20th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Of course, Murtha saw all these problems during those weekly visits to Walter Reed long ago, but never made a comment until the story hit the news, eh, alphie?
I mean, since Murtha cares so much more about the troops than Bush, surely he was looking into the matter already, right? And being the chairmain of the House Appropriations Defense subcommittee, he offered funding to fix these problems. Yes?
Funny, right now, there are no press releases or events listed at the subcommitte site, or his own web site . You’d think Murtha would have this ready to go, showing how much more he cares than Bush.
I mean, you can cite some legislation from Murtha, right? See, the web site of the Office of the Clerk lists only 12 legislative actions involving Murtha….none of which involve Walter Reed or the VA.
[crickets]
About what I thought. Murtha = alphie = loser.
February 20th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Give him some time, Jeff.
The Democrats have only been in charge of America for a few weeks. I’m sure we’ll be seeing the legislation soon enough.
Reread the original statement that instantly made Murtha the enemy of America’s war porn addicts, Christianist fanatics, chickenhawks and war profiteers:
“Our military and their families are stretched thin. Many say that the Army is broken. Some of our troops are on their third deployment. Recruitment is down, even as our military has lowered its standards. Defense budgets are being cut. Personnel costs are skyrocketing, particularly in health care. Choices will have to be made. We can not allow promises we have made to our military families in terms of service benefits, in terms of their health care, to be negotiated away. ”
http://www.house.gov/list/press/pa12_murtha/pr051117iraq.html
February 20th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
Murtha also made himself an enemy of those of us who want to win by, well, wanting us to lose. Losing the war would have a worse effect on the Army than the number of wounded we have suffered so far or the stress of deployment, but as long as he gets to cry his crocodile tears before Congress he will have the love of alphie and all the other defeatists.
February 20th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
Give him some time, Jeff.
The Democrats have only been in charge of America for a few weeks. I’m sure we’ll be seeing the legislation soon enough.
So? Murtha has been visiting the troops for a long time. Why doesn’t he have a solution ready NOW? Why should I give him any time, if the situation is as dire you make it out to be?
Besides which, my original point was, if Murtha has been visiting the wounded at Watler Reed for all this time, why are we hearing about this problem only now? Is Murtha hiding something? Why keep this quiet? Murtha should have raised hell months ago, if he cared so much about the troops.
Which, of course, he doesn’t. Murtha only cares for Murtha, and if he can get ahead by walking over the backs of the wounded, that’s just what Murtha will do.
And CavMedic has it right…..Murtha is a defeatist, and that’s why he is an enemy of a large portion of America, not because he mouthed some words and wiped away his false tears. If he truly cared about the troops, Murtha would not even consider this insane “slow bleed’ strategy, which will surely place American forces in greater danger than without it.
Murtha would not only walk over the wounded to get ahead, he’ll make sure that there are wounded and dead Americans available for him to walk over.
Talk about your war profiteers.
February 21st, 2007 at 3:26 am
Murtha’s had years to do something about military housing. Instead of upgrading on-base housing, Congress has been all too eager to get rid of every bit of military property they could. Murtha wants to cut the funding for the war, but I haven’t heard a word about making life easier for the troops, or their families. No one would give a hoot about any of this now, if it weren’t seen as a weapon to use against Bush.
As a retired Navy nurse, I can attest to the vast difference between military hospitals 20 years ago, and now. The care for personnel is very good, by any standard, and better than many civilian hospitals I’ve been in lately. Therapy and rehabilitation is better than anything I’ve experienced–and I’ve experienced military medical care from the time of my mother’s work in Japan after WWII and through Korea, to my service in, and during, Viet Nam. I worked in one of the biggest VA hospitals in the 70s, and I can tell you that veterans care is so far above what it was that there is hardly a comparison.
All we represent to the troll is a chance to haul out the very limited and tired insults, coined by others and painstakingly learned by rote. Even so, he slings them like hash, without wit, subtlety, or even proper context. He can’t help it since it takes more mental acumen to do more. I suggest, if you feel the need to address whatever point you can discern in his post, that you do so without addressing him directly. Like all second-handers, he requires the efforts of others to exist–whether it is someone to tell him what to parrot, or someone to give him a chance to repeat his lessons.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:48 am
Murtha has been raising hell, Jeff.
Why do you think Bush’s corporate cronies have been trying to paint him as a traitor?
I don’t understand why vets have been willing to help them swiftboat Murtha, though.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:04 am
Murtha has been raising hell in general for years, just not on the subject of Walter Reed. Not until that story hit the Washington Post, at any rate. As I said, he’ll walk on the backs of our wounded to score political points.
I do recall that he got really pissed when he got caught taking bribes in Abscam, though.
As to vets swiftboating Murtha……we know losers and posers when we see one. Murtha is all that and worse. Much worse.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Murtha never took bribes from the Abscam folks, Jeff.
Swiftboating is easier than it looks i guess.
Taritors, losers and drunks indeed.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:54 pm
“You know, we do business for a while, maybe I’ll be interested, maybe I won’t,” Murtha said on the FBI videotape
Yep, you’re right, he didn’t take any bribes. But he didn’t flat out say “No!”, and he certainly was fishing for one. Makes me wonder who Murtha saw next.
February 24th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
WARNING: Back in my day story coming up!
Where were all these people during the 90’s when it was popular to cut the defense budget? I remember when on active duty living in barracks that were condemned, with holes in the walls, floors, celings, etc… Complaints were given the rote response that it was not in the budget to fix up the barracks. These were problems at several installations Army and Marine Corps. I guess there were no polictial points at that time. Eventually they got fixed, I think.
The fact of life is Military life is difficult. There is never enough money to go around. It always has been and always will be a fertile field for desperate politicians to look and find problems for their soap box.