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George Bush vetoed the surrender bill with a pen given to him by the father of Marine Cpl. Dustin Derga, killed in Anbar May 8, 2005. Robert Derga was in the group of Gold Star families who met Bush in the Oval Office two weeks ago. He wanted Bush to use the pen to veto that bill, and called back to make sure he was going to do it.
Larry Gwin, former XO of Alpha Company, 2/7 Cav, veteran of the Ia Drang battles of 1965 and author of “Baptism, A Vietnam Memoir,” is very familiar with death in war. He has not been a great fan of this war, but has stated all along that once troops are committed, the nation must be behind them to the end. He circulated the following among some friends the other day and said I could run it. The Democratic-controlled Congress is giving Gwin a flashback. I’m guessing he’s not the only one:
Another Grunt’s Rant on Iraq
Am I wrong, or am I wrong? It looks like there’s going to be a Constitutional crisis on the war in Iraq – a showdown between Congress and the President. Congress has voted to tie military funding to a timetable for withdrawal, and the President has vowed to veto their bill. That will put the burden back on Congress to reconsider legislation that will fund the war, i.e. support the troops, and if they refuse, the Defense Department’s budget is going to take a hit.
The Democrats insist that what they’re doing is obeying the will of the people, as demonstrated by the November elections that gave them a majority in both houses. What a crock that is! There never was any referendum on the war– just a straight election for representatives in the House and Senate, some of whom supported the war, and some of whom didn’t. It seems to me that the Democrats, who have a majority in both houses of Congress for the first time since 1994, now think they can ram a surrender down our throats in the name of the people, even though there has never been a specific referendum on making a stand or withdrawing in Iraq. So, who is right?
We’ll see.
Whether you like our being in Iraq or not, it’s clear that most of the people want “out.” After all, who would ever want to fight a war? But if push comes to shove, would Congress stop supporting the troops, or vote to cut off the funding necessary to continue the mission, or vote to surrender over there? I doubt it.
But that’s what the Democrats are trying to do.
They’re trying to pull the plug on our efforts, not by voting to end the war, or expressly cutting off any spending for it, but by suggesting that funding be tied to a specific timetable for withdrawal.
And that, in my mind, is surrender. As soon as you tell the enemy that you are going to leave, all they have to do is sit back and wait for you to leave. And, if they really hate you, they can start sniping at you as you go, when you’re most vulnerable to an attack. A retrograde maneuver is one of the most difficult tactical missions an army is ever faced with. A retreat, and that’s what this would be, requires stealth, continual pressure on the forces opposing yours, and lots of political spin.
What the Democrats are doing is akin to what we did in Vietnam by signing a peace agreement with the North Vietnamese, tantamount to bailing out on our allies’ without their concurrence, then departing with absolutely no intention of ever coming back, no matter what the North Vietnamese did. Congress also cut off financial support for South Vietnam after our departure. And sure as hell, as soon as we left, the North Vietnamese attacked south in full force, and for two more years, the two sides pounded each other until the more determined North, supported by Russia and China, won the war. And we veterans here at home who had fought and seen so many of our buddies die over there, had to keep our mouths shut and just take it.
And we felt the shame of defeat. Not a defeat we’d suffered, but a defeat of our national will. And that enraged me and made me feel ashamed. It took me more than forty years to get over it, and I still simmer when I think about it.
And we’re going to do it again, thanks to the Democrats in Congress.
On the other hand – and I have to say this to keep my sanity — in a democracy, the will of the people must prevail, and if the majority of our population really want us to leave Iraq, then we should. But has there been a national debate about staying or leaving, fighting or folding, winning or losing? No. Has there been a definitive referendum on the war? No. And have the American people been given a chance, other than anecdotally, to make a statement on whether we want to withdraw from Iraq and face the consequences, or whether we want to tough it out, and win the bloody thing? No.
So I ask you, where do the Democrats come up with this national mandate bullshit?
Whole cloth, baby. Whole cloth.
4/28/07
A little more of Gwin and some of his friends:
Rescorla
Above and Beyond
“I am going to die well.”
Waterloo
Topics: military, pols
Posted by Jules Crittenden at 11:36 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2007
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May 2nd, 2007 at 1:39 am
2007.05.02 Dem Perfidy // Islamism Delenda Est Roundup
See previous: 2007.05.01 Dem Perfidy // Islamism Delenda Est Roundup Another Grunt’s Rant on IraqJules Crittenden George Bush vetoed the surrender bill with a pen given to him by the father of Marine Cpl. Dustin Derga, killed in Anbar May
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:49 am
For some reason your site’s quit letting me leave trackbacks. I linked from my 2007.05.02 Dem Perfidy // Islamism Delenda Est Roundup.
Larry Gwin’s definitely not the only one having flashbacks these days. I remember exactly where I was when I heard Kennedy had been shot, when I heard Elvis was gone, when I heard Challenger had exploded, and I remember exactly where I was when I first saw that “Last Helicopter” picture on the front of The Daily Texan. The other incidents left me sad; the Helicopter picture left me mad as Hell. C J and your other friends from your Critter days deserve better than to ever have to see a picture that has that effect on them.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:48 am
Ditto.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:34 am
Saltydog, I’ll get organized and go about this right someday but if you come back by and see this would you get in touch with me? bill.faith@gmail.com. I have a key to http://www.oldwardogs.us for you if you’ll take it and use it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:32 am
[...] Pelosi and Reid’s surrender bill, which tied military funding to a timetable for withdrawal was nothing but a blatant attempt to try to stop the surge to victory but thankfully, President Bush vetoed their shameful surrender bill yesterday. [...]
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:40 am
[...] tip to Jules Crittenden. By JDZ Feedbacks on this entry via RSS 2.0 Please leave a Comment or discuss via Trackback! [...]
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:46 am
Mr. Crittenden —
I’ve never responded to a blog post before, but yours, which I came across while reading Memeorandum, saddened me. This war is tearing this country apart again, just as Vietnam once did. A fact you pointed out.
I just wanted to make a few points to that end:
First, the President was right to veto this wrong-headed (if not plain stupid) bill.
However, the defeat we are facing in Iraq — according to numerous military men and conservative analysts - is in no way the fault of the Democrats. This war, which I personally support ( we need to stay there a good, long time), has been disastrously ill-conceived and mis-managed from the start. The President has had his way completely so far and he had blown it. I don’t see how one could argue otherwise.
The hard fact we face is this: If the war is not winnable in any way that we would recognize as a victory, then sending in more troops violates all the rules of just war and good sense. If the result is chaos whether we stay or go, then we may have to make the tough decision to pull out.
I take McCain’s view and intend vote for him. But, blaming the Democrats (and by inference all the military and conservatives now against this war) for this fiasco, strikes me as an unfortunate search for a scapegoat.
We have to confront the hard facts of this terribly and arrogantly wasted opportunity in the Middle East.
And as for the Democrats causing defeat in Vietnam, I’ve always followed Harry Summers analysis on this. It seems to have held up over time.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:48 am
Another Grunt’s Rant on Iraq
Jules Crittenden has a compelling post in which he includes sentiments by Larry Gwin, a Vietnam veteran, who writes that the Democrats’ surrender plan is giving him flashbacks to when…
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:22 am
Having been at the “Gathering of Eagles” event in DC, I would say that there has been an awakening. This time abandoning our service personnel’s sacrifice will not go down so easily. And the polls also do not differentiate from those who want to leave because we are not fighting to win and don’t want more sacrifice for nothing and those who are white flag wavers. My son is in Iraq and does not want us to leave and repeat Vietnam. He realizes that this enemy would not be satisfied in just conquering Iraq. But, he like me wants more aggressive moves against our enemies’ supporters in Iran and Syria. Neither of us would poll to leave Iraq on this basis because we know how it would be interpreted.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:45 am
This article sums up nearly everything I’ve been thinking and stewing over, and I can’t really add anything constructive.
The link I sent to my wife was titled “I’m glad somebody else’s dad feels like this”.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:37 am
Web Reconnaissance for 05/02/2007
A short recon of whats out there that might draw your attention.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:05 am
kilroy,
“This war, which I personally support ( we need to stay there a good, long time), has been disastrously ill-conceived and mis-managed from the start. The President has had his way completely so far and he had blown it. I don’t see how one could argue otherwise.”
I will assume that you are childless…or at least have not yet experienced the joy of the “teen years”.
Nation building…as in child rearing doesn’t come with a sure fire “Field manual”…every child is different…just as every nation as different…
There are no shortage of people who can point out thousands of errors that were made in the rearing of virtually every child…unfortunately…they tend not to agree on what those errors are…does one let the child choose what and when to eat…or does one insist the child finish his plate on a structured meal schedule?
Is letting a child climb a tree an unnecessary risk to the childs safety…or does it build confidence and self-reliance?(If the child falls the critics will be clear that it was an un-necessary risk)
Does one give up on the child as they hit the “Terrible Twos”…or carry on in the faith that better days are ahead?
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:10 am
[...] ANOTHER GRUNT’S rant on Iraq. [...]
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:06 pm
[...] Or they’re saying, “just because we replaced feckless Republicans with you, that doesn’t mean we told you to demoralize the troops and leave the Iraqi people to a bloody fate. Or to screw around for your personal gain” [...]
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:22 pm
[...] “mandate” is BS Jules Crittenden: Another Grunt’s Rant on Iraq Another Grunt’s Rant on [...]
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:09 pm
“However, the defeat we are facing in Iraq — according to numerous military men and conservative analysts - is in no way the fault of the Democrats.”
Well, you can’t lose if you don’t withdraw, and the only people talking about withdrawal (a.k.a. running away) are the Democrats as far as I can tell. So how could such a capitulation be anyone else’s fault?
You have two options - stick it out, adapt, overcome, and eventually win, or give up and go home. I know which option I’d take, every time. I don’t fold in the face of a challenge. How about you?