Shocking!
Bag off New Republic’s “Shock Troops” diarist Scott Thomas’ head, Pvt. Scott Thomas Beauchamp faces invest over his claims of U.S. military misbehavior.
Argghhh!!! offers up a different diarist.
Jawa: Doubly shocking! TNR Plame game! Ace with inside dirt on same.
Posted by Jules Crittenden at 10:54 am on Thursday, July 26, 2007
22 Responses to “Shocking!”
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July 26th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Matt Iglesias writes: “even though the misconduct it described was far, far less severe than all sorts of other well-document misconduct in Iraq.”
Which is basically the point Jules was making in a post that attracted blogospheric ridicule a few days ago. Paul Fussell, in the Great War and Modern Myth, writes extensively about gruesome treatment commonly done by when he was a soldier in the Pacific during World War II, and even has (as I recall) a photo of a Japanese skull used as a cooking pot. The point of his book was that this is the kind of thing that happens in wartime when soldiers are daily confronted with death, and yet we plaster the memory of this over in order, for some reason, to make war seem more tolerable.
The point here is that the incidents in the New Republic and the Nation are not the war-stopping, “Have We Lost Our Humanity” type of incidents such as Mai Lai. Instead they are the kind of things that happen during war, however illegal they may be. For that reason, it’s odd to see conservatives feign surprise at it.
July 26th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
“For that reason, it’s odd to see conservatives feign surprise at it.”
corndog, you completely miss the point. Whether you are being deliberately obtuse, or if your simple nature prevents you from grasping reality, is a topic for another day.
First, no one “feigned surprise” at the incidents. People who know better are surprised that such incidents took place without anyone reporting them, especially with the plethora of witness that are described. I am aware that you hold the military in low regard, but that sort of behavior is completely unacceptable, and the vast majority of troops know it. If I had witnessed, for example, the messhall incident that Beauchamp wrote about, I would have dragged those soldiers over to their commanding officer, after dressing them down…..in public. Stop living in Vietnam, because this ain’t Vietnam, regardless of what Ted Kennedy says.
Second, what the real issue here is that Beauchamp is likely to be held accountable for one of two points: Either he witnessed unacceptable behavoir, including violation of the UCMJ, or he’s lying through his teeth about said incidents.
If the former, on the high side, he failed to report illegal acts….which makes him an accomplice after the fact. On the low side, such behavior is indicitive of poor morale and combat induced stress, either of which he could have reported to medical channels. Which makes him a really shitty soldier, instead of a possible criminal.
If the latter, well, I’m sure that you, of all people, don’t agree with lies and slander against innocent parties. After all, you’ve complained enough about them.
But there is a third possibility: Beauchamp may be unwell. Whether by pre-existing condition, or from combat induced stress, remains to be seen. But if that’s the case, then Beauchamp has no credibility, and his articles can’t be taken seriously. Except, perhaps, by equally unwell people.
July 26th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Jeffy,
Oh yes, sorry, Jeffy: forgot I was on one of the blogs that said Jamil Hussein didn’t exist.
Yes, there are people who talk along the lines you describe, but I’m talking about comments such as this:
“Once again, as I’ve said all along, you can’t “support the troops” while publishing agitprop that suggests the troops are a bunch of sociopaths.”
Note the lack of suggestion that this is made up.
My own point is pretty limited, so don’t take it all that far.
July 26th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
I cannot help but take note of the attitudes displayed by these two very different men. The general attitude displayed by “Sir Scott Thomas” is familiar to all who have read our own pet troll’s words (or the words of any irrational anti), though Sir Scott is more self-consciously verbose. The same kind of internalized hatred colors everything; the obvious agenda gainsays every stated justification; the motivation, well I don’t pretend to understand what motivates beyond a generalized hatred, a childish need for attention and a grossly perverted ambition.
July 26th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
“Once again, as I’ve said all along, you can’t “support the troops” while publishing agitprop that suggests the troops are a bunch of sociopaths.”
Too bad that you didn’t say that up front, corndog.
Now, if they presented that story as an aberration (what you call “…the kind of things that happen during war, however illegal they may be…”), instead of the “well, of course this is normal!” approach, you’d have a point.
However, TNR and other outlets go out of their way to publish horror stories about Iraq, and avoid the good stories. Worse, it’s possible that this time, TNR did about as much fact checking on Beauchamp as the NYT did on Jason Blair. To me, it looks like the TNR rushed a story to publication because they liked what it said, regardless of the impact on US troops as a whole. That sounds like agitprop to me, regardless of the packaging.
And I find it very hard to understand how one can “support the troops” on the hand, while smearing those same troops with the other hand.
Stay tuned for more outdated and smacked down leftie talking points, brought to you by your friendly neighborhood corndog!
July 26th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
“Worse, it’s possible that this time, TNR did about as much fact checking on Beauchamp as the NYT did on Jason Blair.” Or - you could say - as TNR did on Stephen Glass.
But I’m not getting into whether it’s fiction or not. I’ll wait to see what the results are, knowing that the “kerning” I’ve seen so far seems silly. Also, I believe that TNR is a Lieberman-loving neocon magazine that has loved the war in Iraq truly, madly and deeply. But if it does turn out to be another fake job, you are absolutely right that “I’m sure that you, of all people, don’t agree with lies and slander against innocent parties.”
———
Saltydog says: “The same kind of internalized hatred colors everything; the obvious agenda gainsays every stated justification; the motivation”
Cousin Salty, I don’t understand what you mean. Can you explain further?
July 26th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
forgot I was on one of the blogs that said Jamil Hussein didn’t exist.
That would be the same Jamil Hussein that AP was suggesting got whacked in an “ethnic cleansing” when they needed a handy excuse right?
July 26th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Oh, good god, PA, you really don’t want to go there again, do you? Oh well, I guess you do. This is from Michelle Malkin’s Jan. 7, 2007 correction:
“I relayed information from multiple sources–CPATT, Centcom, and two other military sources on the ground in Iraq– that the Associated Press’s disputed source, Jamil Hussein, could not be found. As I noted on the 4th, the AP reported that the Ministry of Interior in Iraq has now said a Captain Jamil Hussein does work in the al Khadra police station. I regret the error.”
July 26th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
“I saw her nearly every time I went to dinner in the chow hall at my base in Iraq. She wore an unrecognizable tan uniform, so I couldn’t really tell whether she was a soldier or a civilian contractor. The thing that stood out about her, though, wasn’t her strange uniform but the fact that nearly half her face was severely scarred. Or, rather, it had more or less melted, along with all the hair on that side of her head. She was always alone, and I never saw her talk to anyone. Members of my platoon had seen her before but had never really acknowledged her. Then, on one especially crowded day in the chow hall, she sat down next to us.”
So…you see a woman who never talks to anyone, is wearing a uniform you don’t recognize, no one knows her, she looks like she’s been in an explosion, and no one thinks this is worth talking to a superior about after repeated visits?
In a country where people are getting blown up by guerrillas every single day?
Excuse me, but I ain’t buying that one.
Sounds like a lot of hogwash to me.
It wouldn’t be that big of a deal even if it was true, but it doesn’t really sound true.
No doubt, Private Beauchamp will have a chance to explain this, and many other things at his court martial.
July 26th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
But I’m not getting into whether it’s fiction or not. I’ll wait to see what the results are, knowing that the “kerning” I’ve seen so far seems silly.
Well, I am getting into that…..because it’s key to the entire discussion. I don’t know if Beauchamp speaks TRVTH, or is talking out of his ass. But it’s pretty clear (IMHO) that he’s a poor soldier, regardless if he is covering for his buddies, or is stabbing them in the back to give his post-discharge career as a writer some “credibility”.
Clearly, you do accept Beauchamp’s stories as true, and are dissing anything contrary to that. Or at least “guilty until proven innocent”. Which is kind of like supporting the troops by printing agitprop against the troops, now that I think upon it.
But you’re right, these are hardly events equal to My Lai…..although you and El Cid fought it out over the descecration story being a violation of the Geneva Convention or not. Funny that you’re yawning now.
As to the New Republic……I really don’t care which way a publication leans politically. Crappy fact checking remains crappy fact checking, be it from the NYT or National Enquirer. The best I can say about that is on a scale of 1 to 10, the TNR is somewhere around 5, and the NYT is approaching -1,000,000,000,000.
July 26th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Is this really the guy’s website?
What in the hell is he doing in a rifle co. (I assume that A Co. is still an infantry co.)? He shouldn’t be within ten thousand miles of the military.
Check this out…and check out the well-deserved reaming he gets from the staff sergeant.
http://ghostsonfilm.blogspot.com/2006/05/bob-dylans-49th-beard.html
Lastly…why the hell is the army allowing uncensored communications out of a combat theater? Did they get rid of military censors?
Christ, I’m starting to get a serious headache.
July 26th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
“3. As for the alleged woman with severe burn scars, we have nobody matching that description here at FOB Falcon…”
Major Kirk Luedeke
Public Affairs Officer
4th IBCT, 1st ID
DRAGONS
Yeah, I had a feeling that might be the case.
July 26th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Ministry of Interior in Iraq has now said a Captain Jamil Hussein does work in the al Khadra police station.
I had no doubt someone “existed” in a physical sense. I see the MOI curiously refrained from endorsing the substance of his “stories” though. The on-the-spot reporting from places far distant from where you’re stationed is really quite amazing isn’t it?
Who would have thought Jamil Hussein was hiding teleportation technology from the rest of the world?
July 26th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Lastly…why the hell is the army allowing uncensored communications out of a combat theater? Did they get rid of military censors?
To answer the last first….yes and no. Those milblogs are scrutinized pretty closely, and offenders reported to their chain of command. In fact, DoD nearly pulled the plug on all blogging several months ago over this sort of crap.
On the rest…..alas, this is the best way to get the good news out of Iraq, Dave. God knows the MSM won’t do it.
Check out MM…..she has an excellent write up on Beauchamp….and it ain’t looking good for him.
July 26th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
“Check out MM..:”
I did. Thanks.
Like I said…I don’t think this guy is on the up and up.
July 26th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
“It is my patriotic duty to believe the soldiers of my country never commit atrocities!”
Sounds familiar.
Can’t quite…oh, that’s right.
July 27th, 2007 at 12:15 am
Glad to be of assistance, Dave.
July 27th, 2007 at 12:52 am
“It is my patriotic duty to believe the soldiers of my country never commit atrocities!”
Hell, you liberals pulled out your atomic bombs, and fried a couple of hundred thousand Nips to end WWII.
It’s not like it’s a big secret or anything.
July 27th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Jeffy says: “kind of like supporting the troops by printing agitprop against the troops, now that I think upon it. ”
So someone says a soldier ran over a dog and someone else made fun of a lady’s face. Reaction of Jeffy, Surly and other wingers: “Outrage! Lies! Get me Centcom!”
Someone shot Pat Tillman three times in the forehead from 10 yards away. Reaction of Jeffy, Surly and other wingers: Silence. Wind sweeping low over the grass.
July 27th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
The government needs to do a better job of controlling the press to make sure that only information that serves the war effort gets published, and that information (true or false) that doesn’t serve the war effort doesn’t get published.
They also need to censor what soldiers are saying so this kind of stuff never gets into the press in the first place. Subjecting written comunications, and electronic communications (like e-mails or weblogs) to censorship is only common sense.
If the government can’t figure out how to do this, then they should study the methods employed by Roosevelt and the liberal Democrats in the 1940s.
Love the liberals or hate them, no one can deny that they knew how to employ censorship.
July 28th, 2007 at 4:50 am
Corndog, sorry I didn’t get back to you earlier. I’ve been a bit under the weather. I would answer your question in detail, but honest to Pete, I can’t bring myself to reread that boy’s crap.
A minor P.S.: When I compared this jerk with our “pet troll” I was speaking of ant, not you. They cannot breathe without sneering. You, at least, seem to use your mind on occasion, and though completely capable of rehearsing the script, I do think that you do more than memorize the latest meme. To me, you are misguided in your thinking, but you’re not an idiot.
I won’t stay quiet on Pat Tillman. What happened to him was savage and a tragedy. The way it was handled was criminal, and is being treated as such. The way it ought to be. As stupid as this Sir Scott person is, there is no comparison to be made. There are bad people in the military, just as there are bad people in the general population from which they are spawned. Surprisingly, there are fewer in the military, overall. It is the constant focus on the rotten sociopaths in both sectors that bother me, and for the same reason. Such focus by the media and entertainment industry makes it seem as though these mutants are the norm, or at least wide-spread through the population. That isn’t the truth. I’m sick to death of this view of mankind, frankly. It ignores all the good in the world that makes life worth living and makes cynics of us all.
July 28th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Salty,
Many thanks for your post. The first half of your last paragraph is basically the point I was trying to make, and now I understand the point you were making earlier.