Waterboarding OK
Guess who had no problem with it? Washington Post:
In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.
Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.
“The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough,” said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.
Yeah, well, that was then. Back when war was easier, less messy. More popular. Before polls suggested there was an advantage to stating that invading Iraq wasn’t a good idea anymore. Before Bush lied, people got waterboarded … excuse me, I mean “died.”
“In fairness, the environment was different then because we were closer to Sept. 11 and people were still in a panic,” said one U.S. official present during the early briefings. “But there was no objecting, no hand-wringing. The attitude was, ‘We don’t care what you do to those guys as long as you get the information you need to protect the American people.’ ”
Only after information about the practice began to leak in news accounts in 2005 — by which time the CIA had already abandoned waterboarding — did doubts about its legality among individual lawmakers evolve into more widespread dissent. The opposition reached a boiling point this past October, when Democratic lawmakers condemned the practice during Michael B. Mukasey’s confirmation hearings for attorney general.
Not fair! The Dems have a political operation to run, and if they are going to govern by poll, it really isn’t sporting for people to start poking around in what they did or didn’t do, think and say when the polls were blowing in a different direction! Next thing you know, someone’s going to say the Clinton co-presidency thought Saddam had a nuclear program and backed regime change.
Think Progress commenter: “No wonder impeachment is off the table.” No kidding. That and the basic preservation instinct of the leadership of the party of poll-governance.
Here’s another blogger taking that point and running with it. Note irony of tragically dated slogan to right: “Torture isn’t American. It’s Republican.” This guy wants Pelosi out, Frank in as speaker. This is a great idea. Now that we’re over that first-woman hump, even if it hasn’t exactly worked out as envisioned, America is ready for its first openly gay, impeachment-happy House speaker. Regulars know I’m a huge fan of Democratic impeachment proceedings, and I just don’t get what the holdup has been. Now that I think about it, past personal failings aside, he’s smarter than Pelosi and more principled. Don’t hold back, Barney.
Welcome, Instapundit, Small Dead Animals, Poligazette, etal. Always good to see you. Principles are overrated, don’t you think? Especially judicial principles. Here are some judges with too much time on their hands. Uh oh. Issues in Diyala could test some people’s anti-AQ principles.
Posted by Jules Crittenden at 8:45 am on Sunday, December 9, 2007
27 Responses to “Waterboarding OK”
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December 9th, 2007 at 9:07 am
[...] Jules Crittenden comments: “Yeah, well, that was a different time. Back when war was easier, less messy. Before polls suggested there was an advantage to stating that invading Iraq wasn’t a good idea any more. Before Bush lied, people got waterboarded … excuse me, I mean ‘died’.” Digg this | Add to del.icio.us [...]
December 9th, 2007 at 9:37 am
It’s obvious (to me anyway) that topics like waterboarding and “the Gitmo guys” get attention and concern as a function of coming into the light as partisan politcal fodder.
All kinds of things are more or less in the shadows until someone somewhere determines that “it” (a subject) is potentially useful for purposes of beating political opponents over the head.
Then, “the press” (on cue) picks it up, and we’re off to the races.
Which brings us to the current debate inside the Supreme Court as to whether or not “the Gitmo guys” (you may call them “detainees”) have rights of habeas corpus under the US Constitution.
Which is just about the stupidest debate I can possibly imagine, right up there with the second amendment debate as to whether the 18th century’s reference to “a well regulated militia” means that inner city drug dealers should have the “right” to be carrying around AK 47’s.
Your Mileage May Vary
December 9th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Jules:
Thanks for the reminder on the sidebar “Torture isn’t American. It’s Republican.” I had meant to take it down, but was having connectivity and timeout problems; now it is down. I stand by the first half of the statement: “Torture isn’t American.” As I wrote in the post:
“The Village is a big sack of pus just waiting to be lanced. Unfortunately, some of that pus is blue.”
Alas, though Bush was the driving force, the so-called Democratic so-called leadership — though not all Democrats — enabled Him every on every step of his divinely inspired mission. Beyond disgusting.
December 9th, 2007 at 11:54 am
[...] Crittenden observes, Yeah, well, that was then. Back when war was easier, less messy. More popular. Before polls [...]
December 9th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Alas, though Bush was the driving force, the so-called Democratic so-called leadership — though not all Democrats — enabled Him every on every step of his divinely inspired mission. Beyond disgusting.
Just a couple of points, lambert.
First, if they are “Democratic leadership”, they are Democrats. If you’re referring to the RINOs like Specter, they’re hardly “enablers” on most issues. More like mill stones. Perhaps this is a small distinction, but an important one.
Second, I trust that you are aware that endless amusement may be derived by most RWDBs from reading about Bush’s “divinely inspired mission”? Even if it sarcastic in nature? Just a thought.
Finally, it’s nice of you to admit that Bush is the President (”Bush was the driving force”). Now, try and get the Congressional Dhimmicrats to stop playing Executive Branch, would you?
December 9th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
[...] Jules Crittenden is brilliant. Not fair! The Dems have a political operation to run, and if they are going to govern by poll, it [...]
December 9th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Jeff:
1. LOL — Right Wing Death Beasts. Yes, I am well aware that the Conservative Movement is a house of many mansions, and that there is a place in it for lunatics even more delusional and evil than Bush. Conservatives have a layered architecture that has worked out very well for them, and I have often advocated that progressives learn from success and copy it.
2. I wrote “Bush” instead of “President Bush” because I try to restrict my use of Constitutional titles to those who, in fact, govern Constitutionally. I mean, “C Plus Augustus” can be a “driving force,” and even a chief executive, without being a President. Eh? No matter what memos Federalist Society elves have been penning to order in the dank dungeons under the Naval Observatory. When and if Constitutional government is restored, I will revisit this issue, of course.
December 9th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Democrats on waterboarding, then versus now
Fresh on the heels of finding out that ranking Democrats knew of the CIA’s videotaping of aggressive interrogation techniques of suspected terrorists, and the later destruction of two of those tapes - all the while doing nothing about it, anti-Bu…
December 9th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
[...] Jules Crittenden responds with some good and very appropriate mockery of the Democrats’ poll-driven approach to issues of national security: Not fair! The Dems have a political operation to run, and if they are going to govern by poll, it really isn’t sporting for people to start poking around in what they did or didn’t do, think and say when the polls were blowing in a different direction! Next thing you know, someone’s going to say the Clinton co-presidency thought Saddam had a nuclear program and backed regime change. [...]
December 9th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Cynicism, thy name is Dhimmicrat.
December 9th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
So the bottom line is that at least some of the Democratic leadership acknowledges that there are times when waterboarding, and other harsh techniques, are appropriate.
December 9th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
there is a place in it for lunatics even more delusional and evil than Bush.
Remember, we must not call the terrorists evil because that’s too simplistic and reactionary. Issues are much more gray and complex than to use such antediluvian terms as “good” and “evil”.
Besides, who’s to judge?
But Bush and those conservatives, now there’s evil.
And this is considered “progressive” thinking in the “reality based community”.
December 9th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
When and if Constitutional government is restored, I will revisit this issue, of course.
Everyone with half a brain knows for a fact that invading Iraq was a war crime. That is pretty cut and dry. Most people should also realize (especially after the missing video tapes) that Bush authorized violations of Geneva.
Lambert, where have you been all my life ?
We could have been having great invective filled exchanges over the emotionally hyped and exaggerated absurdity of the above statements. And a lot more !
(or not)
December 9th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
“1. LOL — Right Wing Death Beasts.”
The guys (liberal Democrat progressives) who brought you the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden, and the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are calling the right wingers “death beasts”.
Hilarious.
December 9th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
What a list of unsupported assertions, Mr. Strether. If they were true, Bush, hated as he is, would never have made it through two terms. But of course they are not true, except in the minds of those who’s mental myopia is chronic and untreated. Being unpopular doesn’t translate into legal wrong. Political disagreement doesn’t translate into legal wrong. Regardless of your obsessions, time and history will move along, leaving you and anything you might have accomplished, behind.
December 9th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
There’s nothing like a good old fashioned moonbat to brighten up the day. Thanks for the totally expected reply, lambert!
December 9th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Waterboarding: They Were For It Before They Were A
For the record, we are not discussing waterboarding in this post, we are discussing the ugly, hypocritical nature of those with knowledge that waterboarding was being used, in 2002, said nothing, and still went on in 2005 to the present time to use i…
December 9th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
[...] Jules Crittenden: Not fair! The Dems have a political operation to run, and if they are going to govern by poll, it really isn’t sporting for people to start poking around in what they did or didn’t do, think and say when the polls were blowing in a different direction! Next thing you know, someone’s going to say the Clinton co-presidency thought Saddam had a nuclear program and backed regime change. [...]
December 9th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Next thing you know, someone’s going to say the Clinton co-presidency thought Saddam had a nuclear program and backed regime change. […]
Bill Clinton’s 1998 Iraq Liberation Act
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/US/Legislation/ILA.htm
December 9th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
liberal Democrat progressives) who brought you the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden, and the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are calling the right wingers “death beasts”.
Leftists aren’t happy until body counts exceed several million.
December 9th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
“Torture isn’t American.”
Maybe, but waterboarding is as American as apple pie, hoss.
‘On Jan. 21, 1968, The Washington Post published a front-page photograph of a U.S. soldier supervising the questioning of a captured North Vietnamese soldier who is being held down as water was poured on his face while his nose and mouth were covered by a cloth. The picture, taken four days earlier near Da Nang, had a caption that said the technique induced “a flooding sense of suffocation and drowning, meant to make him talk.”‘
‘The article said the practice was “fairly common”…’
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/04/AR2006100402005.html
Oh, btw, when this was going on the United States had a liberal Democrat president, and both houses of Congress had been Democrat for many years.
Go figure.
December 9th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
“Leftists aren’t happy until body counts exceed several million.”
You gotta hand it to the liberals (the Wilsons, Roosevelts, Trumans, Kennedys, Johnsons, et al), they can kill people en masse with the best of them.
I could live with it a lot easier if I didn’t have to listen to the faux-pacifism that goes along with the mass slaughter progressive types so frequently engage in.
December 9th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
[...] Jules Crittenden: Not fair! The Dems have a political operation to run, and if they are going to govern by poll, it really isn’t sporting for people to start poking around in what they did or didn’t do, think and say when the polls were blowing in a different direction! Next thing you know, someone’s going to say the Clinton co-presidency thought Saddam had a nuclear program and backed regime change. [...]
December 9th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
Why how about that! When George Tenet, Democrat, was running the CIA they waterboarded people and the Democrat leadership in Congress was fine with it. Now that Republicans are in the Top slots in some of the intelligence agencies we haven’t waterboarded anyone.
Goodamn torturing Republicans anyway.
December 10th, 2007 at 11:42 am
strether?
or… ’s truther!
There. That’s better.
December 10th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
[...] writing: Instapundit. Sister Toldjah Sundries Shack Jules Crittenden Flopping Aces Gateway Pundit by TheAnchoress @ 2:47 pm. Filed under Bush Bad?, The Fourth [...]
February 14th, 2008 at 7:16 am
[...] wonder why the Dems didn’t do this sooner. They’ve known about waterboarding for at least six years, after all. Anyway, next time a high-value al Qaeda suspect fails to spill in a timely fashion [...]